科学、人文、理性、马克思主义 ――专访同志哥 陶一翔 采访/整理 浙江大学学生独立刊物《何求》（以下简称《何求》）：你好，非常感谢你接受《何求》的采访。 98ID"同志哥"（以下简称"同志哥"）：你好。 《何求》：因为目前同志的话题在国内仍然属于禁忌，所以我相信这次访谈能够在多方面发挥积极的作用。 同志哥：这也同样是我的希望。 《何求》：只要上98的同学大都会知道你，因为你是这个群体中比较"张扬"的一个，公开谈论，从不避讳。那么你在现实中也是如此吗？ 同志哥：我已经对父母出柜，但是由于缺乏策略，所以很不成功。此外，我还向个别亲属出了柜，主要是一些同辈，当然，我更多地是在家庭成员交际圈以外的某些场合出柜，像学校 BBS 、防艾公益界等等。周围的同学会有个别人知道。当然，没有必要向其坦白、且坦白有可能引来麻烦的情况下，我是很谨慎的。 《何求》：从网络上的言论看，校内大多数人还是能够对你保持基本的尊重，不会有恶意攻击的现象对吧？ 同志哥：基本上是这样，98 上人隔得远，和我没有利害冲突。 《何求》：那么你身边知道的人对你的态度都是怎样的？ 同志哥：现实中，早年间像复旦大学硕士期间，男生都知道我是，但我和他们都相处得还可以，算是其乐融融吧。到浙大读博，以前住在隔壁的几个老博，我告诉了他们，他们都表示理解。但我曾经和一个室友翻过脸，后来他就拿这个事情来要挟我，说要去楼长那里说云云，为此我换了宿舍，和他成了仇人。 《何求》：就你了解，学校内的同性恋人群，能够公开或半公开自己身份的能有多少？ 同志哥：这个我倒还真的没有去调研过，不过肯定是越来越多。但是，出柜是一个多方面多层次的问题，向谁，在什么语境下，也是比较微妙和复杂的。事实是我们都在和社会互动，但一味自保、把一切深深隐藏在心底的 同志也还是很多的。 《何求》：学校方面知道你的身份吗？是否有找你谈过，或表明什么态度？ 同志哥：估计学校方面很多老师都知道我，比方说最近我们就要在西溪咖啡吧搞一个女同影展，我本人是经常以公开的同性恋者的身份出席 98 各种活动。我们辅导员也曾经因为发帖的事找我谈话，但那是关于其他一些事件的帖子。但是他们不会找我谈这方面的事。我对我所属学院和研究所，也不会去和他们谈这些。 《何求》：在西溪的影展是否遇到过什么阻力？ 同志哥：目前还没有，咖啡吧是人文学院办的，我们说明来意，他们也没说什么，就帮我们订了场子，只是说如果有领导来视察等重要活动，就提前通知我们取消。 《何求》：你认为同志群体中有哪些现实的困难，他们的生活状态都怎么样？ 同志哥：这个就很多了，受社会歧视，自我不认同，妄自菲薄，自甘堕落者有之；在各方面战战兢兢，惟恐被主流社会知道后穿小鞋或遭到不测，把自己掩盖得很深；甚至，找异性恋异性缔结不负责任的婚姻，过着半人半鬼的生活，进而成为艾 滋病传播的桥梁人群，社会上这类人，海了去了。 《何求》：你认为同性恋人群应该怎么做才能获得比较良好的生活状态？ 同志哥：我认为很重要的一点，还是科学、人文、理性、马克思主义，事实是怎么样的，就是怎么样的，凡事都要鼓励实事求是、就事论事地辩论、驳难。同性恋作为一个人群，它是一种身份，一种不可割裂的人格，一种自然的生存状态，是现实的、全面的，我们要在同志内部倡导科学的观念，包括自我认同、权利意识、责任意识，同时也要在社会范围内"祛魅"，倡导社会对这个群体的客观认知，既不歧视、压抑，也不神化、美化。 《何求》：归结起来就是同性恋人群的自我认知和社会的正确认识？ 同志哥：没错，是这样的，但仅仅认识自己是个同性恋者还远远不够，还要掌 握很多很多与这方面有关的知识，比如同性恋非病理、非刑罪，比如权利意识、骄傲意识，以及，一些身心健康注意事项，等等。并且同性恋解放运动是在改造客观世界――平权反歧视反迫害――的过程中改造主观世界――重塑自我，重树信心，社会的改革和个人的焕然一新，是不可分离的两个方面。 《何求》：我们也听说过一些事例，包括在校内，曾经有过一些同性恋者非常公开地宣扬自己的身份，包括在公共场合有很亲密的举动。这样做是否可取呢？ 同志哥：这或许应该看作一种叛逆的行为艺术来看待，这都是以往对这些人压抑得太深太久，所导致的结果。这也是相互的，社会同性恋者的压抑，势必造成诸如同妻、艾滋病、违法犯罪，包括同性骚扰无适用法律等一系列问题，这些都是以往没有宣传和贯彻正 确的知识、理念带来的弊端，同时也会在同志圈子里面引起或堕落、品德败坏，或逆反、非理性冲动等不良情绪。此外，由于知识宣传的缺位，一些不正确的、被盲目美化和夸大、却未必符合事实的认识就趁虚而入占据人们的头脑，什么GAY 都是唯美而低调的等等，这些也是不对的，现在的局面，种种令非同志大为不满同时也未必就令同志满意的现状，都是社会处于转型期所必然会遇见的，但是，真正等一个没有这方面歧视的世界建立起来了，"祛魅"自然也就完成了，同志会从唯美、浪漫、神奇回归为平淡、真实、无可无不可。 《何求》：这也是你在网上进行宣传的目的吧。目前的渠道是否能够满足同性恋人群对于这方面知识获取的需求？ 同志哥：知识渠道是有的，网络是很重要的方式。但是，问题是很多同性恋者不是很关注这些东西，这恰恰是最最要命的，因为你没有掌握一种工具，就保护不了你自己。此外，正确知识的缺乏，必然伴随似是而非的错误认识的甚嚣尘上，包括很多同志网站，包括大量的所谓耽美作品，很多同志自己接受了这 些东西，结果造成了短视和自我污名化。中国同性恋群体仍然处于由自发步入自觉的前夜。 《何求》：那网络之外的渠道呢？ 同志哥：目前我们大陆有很多这方面的所谓工作组，但多数都在做艾滋病项目。我们浙大，杭州城内，浙江省内，当然也有各种同志小团体，以网站、QQ 群、工作组等方式展开活动，但是，内容娱乐性的多，观念倡导性的少，做艾滋病的多，做同志文化、社会议题的少。中国只有爱白、北京同志活动中心，同语、上海女爱、智行、广州亲友会、广州同城等一些组织、团体涉足比较纯粹的同志文化、社会议题，至于在香港台湾，这类专门的同志义工组织就比较多，也比较专。 《何求》：你最后希望对同性恋人群说点什么呢？ 同志哥：我希望我们的同志都认清现实，挺直了腰杆做人，正大光明地要求他们可以要求的东西，同时，给主流社会一个正面、负责任的印象。我当然也希望我们的主流社会能够增进对这个群体的包容和理解，须知当今这个社会，很多涉及到这个群体的问题，都是歧视和压迫所造成的，这些问题损害的不仅是同志群体，更是包括广大异性恋者 在内的整个社会，所以，一切都是相互的。 《何求》：谢谢你接受我们的采访，谢谢。 同志哥：不客气。 无题 LUO Yingye Cherry 40037651 As love is the eternal theme in literature and art, everyone desires his true love and wants to share his happiness to all over the world. However, not everyone can do this, at least in current society, which I mean is the gays and lesbians. "You know, the marriage between two people of the same sex is illegal, but we also need the same rights as heterosexuality." Tongzhige said, a Ph.D. in Zhejiang University, as well as a gay, "because of this, we must do something to change, to get our own rights." What he said is what he did. In Tongzhige's childhood, when he watched the TV play "The Journey to the West", he found he liked the soldiers in armor much more, rather than the beautiful fairies as the other boys did. In that moment, he thought he is a gay subtly even though he didn't know anything about the concept of gay or homosexual at all. "Until I was in senior school or even in university, the concept of homosexual seemed to be familiar to me. And the concept was confirmed in the study to my master's degree and up to this several years to my Ph.D., I set about doing some work in this respect." Tongzhige said. Many gays in China shy away from revealing their sexual preference for fear of discrimination. The human rights of gays are not enough in China, which Tongzhige and his fellows are looking for. Tongzhige always posts massages in some popular forums, as well as in People and People and Google so that can make the knowledge of homosexual universal to change the position of discrimination. In addition, what Tongzhige did includes participating in some activities to prevent AIDS, delivering several pieces of positive news about homosexual, and coordinating some civil action, like Lei Chuang's action to struggle rights for Hepatitis b patients. Tongzhige describes the values of what he is doing as "the gay rights movements is happening slowly and toughly in the entire world, as well as in China. What we did maybe can only promote in few millimeters, or even few microns. As long as it does promote, all the effort just can be valuable." In China, many homosexuals cave in to the old traditions and moralities so that they choose to get a marriage to the heterosexuals who they don't love at all. "But I will say 'NO!' to all of these." Tongzhige said it stoutly, "As a homosexual, I have to clarify my stand, to do what my heart goes, only in this way can we be heard. Otherwise, the hegemonies dominated by heterosexual will be more powerful, whose symbols is paternity, the out-dated issue." "As Carl Marx said, 'changing in quantity leads to changing in quality.' I have to practice it from myself to make my own contribution to the gay rights movements." Tongzhige said so as he did. During 2003 to 2006, he was pressed to date girls to get a marriage by his family. He resisted all the arrangements, eventually, he announced he is a gay and he will never marry a woman, which shocked his family. Just in this reason, the wars broke out between him and his family. Luckily, a compromise was achieved in the end by his family that they won't push him to get a marriage, but in the meanwhile, it won't be accepted to find a guy he loved. In deed, they still can not understand him, nor can support him. Tongzhige said, "this difference will be last because it exists in our perception which can't change in one or two generation. It takes a long term to struggle, and I will do my every effort." "I never think it is ashamed that a guy loves a guy, on the contrary, I enjoy it." Tongzhige said, "Once people refer to homosexual, it always relates with AIDS, one night sex and such many negative words. All these are bias, so I want to change it. But I am not so good to accomplish all the activities." Tongzhige said he is an introvert so that he can't work very well as a team with other fellows. To do things alone will be prior to him. That's why he can't stay a long term in a group to go for something with others, which limited him in some degree. "since I know this, I will try my best to correct it so that our gay rights movements can achieve better." In Tongzhige's signature line, he wrote a sentence as below: "I am a critic, untimely and unpopular. I am fighting for a world of non-discrimination against sex orientation, caring everything about the homosexual rights movement, prevention of AIDS, civil rights and NGO, long live Marx, long live Engels, long live truth, long live freedom." "Actually, I'm a celibacy bachelor because I'm not good at dealing with the tete-a-tete world. I prefer donate my whole life to gay rights movements. I love loneliness. I love freedom. I will never get married even if I'm a heterosexual." Tongzhige said. 同志哥 不合时宜、不受欢迎的独立评论家 邮箱：tongzhige@yahoo.cn 手机：15267169160 QQ：1241841592 日志楼：  http://www.cc98.org/dispbbs.asp?boardID=144&ID=3145462&page=邮件组论坛： 为一个没有性倾向歧视的世界而奋斗，同运、防艾、民权、NGO 事事关心，马克思、恩格斯万岁，真理万岁，自由万岁！ |
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